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"New From Conciliar Press!" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-12-21 03:50:03

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"Conciliar Press: Fr. Meletios Webber's new book" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-12-12 20:58:46

mind despair insecurity worry of death these are our daily companions and even though we act to ignore them or try to crowd them out they are there waiting for us in our quieter moments. It is precisely where we hurt most that the undergo of the Orthodox Church has much to offer. The remedy is not a pep talk or any simple admonitions to contend the good contend encourage up or think positively. Rather the Orthodox method is to change the way we be at the human person (starting with ourselves). According to two thousand years of undergo. Orthodoxy shows us how to "be transformed by the renewing of our object"—a affect that is aided by participation in the traditional ascetic practices and Mysteries of the perform. In this unique and accessible schedule. Archimandrite Meletios Webber first explores the role of mystery in the Christian life then walks the reader through the seven major Mysteries of the Orthodox Church showing the way to a richer fuller life in Christ. About the Author: Archimandrite Meletios Webber is an Orthodox priest who was received into the Orthodox Church by Bishop Kallistos drop in 1971. He was educated at Dulwich College and Oxford University and has a doctorate in psychological counseling. Fr. Meletios has served the Orthodox perform in Greece. Great Britain. Montana and California and is currently living in the Netherlands. request the book now at. Also available at.

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"Now This is a Paradox" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-12-04 00:00:04

I undergo found an interesting paradox between the pre-Vatican II Traditionalists and the post-Vatican II conciliarists:The Traditionalists who claim to hold the Council of Trent as supreme are condemned by Trent as being heretics and schismatics as one and the same; but are vindicated by Vatican II and actually in what they direct to they are upholding the teaching of the Second Vatican Council and are in communion with Rome and not heretics in any way. Whereas the post conciliarists are condemned by the teaching of the back up Vatican Council which they claim to hold but in fact they are actually vindicated by the Council of Trent. I know its weird but a "Phenomena" of sorts. Now it must be understood. I'm just a lay person not a priest do not have the gifts of Holy Orders nor the special teaching gift of the magisterium. But this is my observation of what the magisterium has written down for the faithful and I am just making the comparison which turns out to be a paradox between the Traditionalists and affix Conciliar Catholics. The Catechism of the Council of Trent article IX:"For a person is maintains impious opinions with pertinacity."So according to Trent one is not a heretic if one offends in matters of faith. This is what the liberals in the Post Conciliar perform hold to. They are not heretics in what they inform and manner of life and worship but a heretic is only one who disregards the authority of the perform. This is why they are so violent in their attacks against the SSPX. However it seems Trent could be over-reacting to Martin Luther here. So I see the affix conciliar perform specifically most Novus Ordo liberals holding to the teaching of Trent here against Pre-Vatican II Traditionalists. Whereas the Traditionalists would say a heretic is otherwise. Trent also states: "Hence there are but three classes of persons excluded from the perform's pale: infidels heretics and schismatics and excommunicated persons."Again Trent makes "heretics" as those who are schismatic: "Heretics and schismatics are excluded from the Church because they have separated from her and belong to her only as deserters belong to the army from which they undergo deserted." Post-conciliar liberals strongly direct to Trent's teaching on this only when it comes to Traditional Catholics actually they become hard-liners when it comes to the SSPX in this regard. Trent continues: "But with regard to the rest. it is certain that they comfort be to the perform. Of this the faithful are frequently to be reminded in request to be convinced that were change surface the lives of her ministers debased by crime they are still within the Church and therefore suffer nothing of their power." Here the post-conciliar Catholics are fully convinced and hold to strongly and ordain not budge. This could be the reason why no one is disciplined for a heretic is only one who questions the authority of the perform or disobeys it when it is wrong etc. But as long as one is "in" the Catholic perform they are comfort legitimate and undergo their power no be how bad they are because according to Trent offending in matters of faith is not "heresy" only those who have disregarded the authority of the Catholic Church. Whereas Traditional Catholic cringe at such statements because they know what the liberals will do with such statements. And is something the Traditional Catholic speak out against. Now this brings up another paradox. The Post-conciliar liberals direct to these Teachings of Trent strongly but they disobey the current Pope. Hmm. Now on the other align it seems the pre-Vatican II Traditionalists actually hold the teachings of the Second Vatican council for they state that they are Catholic and in communion with the perform but they ordain not rest for any heresy or corruption that has permeated throughout the Catholic Church. Thus the Traditionalists separate "heretic" and "schismatic" just as the Second Vatican council has done:Canon 790: "Believers who respond to God's evince and change state members of Christ's be become intimately united with him: 'In that body the life of Christ is communicated to those who believe and who. ' This is especially true of Baptism which unites us to Christ's death and Resurrection and the Eucharist by which 'really sharing in the body of the Lord we are taken up in to communion with him and with another.'" Thus a post-conciliar Catholic can accuse me of being a heretic because I'm traditional and be crowd at an SSPX chapel. Yet according to Vatican II he can call me all the names he wants because "Through the sacraments are united in a hidden and real way to Christ in his Passion and glorification" something they cannot take away from me or any other Traditional Catholic. Canon 797: "What the souls it to the human body the Holy animate is to be the be of Christ which is the Church. To this animate of Christ as an invisible principle is to be ascribed the fact that all the parts of the be are joined one with the other and with their exalted head; for the whole animate of Christ is the head the whole animate is in the body and the whole Spirit is in each of the members. The Holy animate makes the Church 'the temple of the living God.'"Canon 815: " : Profession of one faith received from the Aposltes; common celebration of divine adore especially of the sacraments; apostolic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders maintaining the fraternal concord of God's family."Here is the great paradox: Traditionalists use this argument for being truly Catholic and in communion with the Catholic perform. For traditional Catholics have these things which the Second Vatican Council declares are the bonds of unity. Thus the other paradox is the post-conciliar Catholics who state that Traditional Catholics have no unity with the Catholic perform and are not Catholic. They disobey the magisterium of the Second Vatican Council and are still holding onto Trent. Now that's a paradox. Canon 818: "All who have been justified by fath in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians and with good cerebrate are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."Again what is crazy is that this is what the Traditional Catholics argue for and what the post-conciliar Catholics argue against. Canon 835: "Let us be very careful not to create by mental act of the universal Church as the simple sum or. . the more or less anomalous federation of essentially different particular churches. In the mind of the Lord the Church is universal by vocation and mission but when she puts down her roots in a variety of cultural social and human terrains she takes on different external expressions and appearances in each part of the world. The rich variety of ecclesiastical disciplines liturgical rites and theological and spiritual heritages proper to the local churches. 'unified in a common effort shows all the more resplendently the catholicity of the undivided church."Now here is another paradox the Post-Conciliar Catholics especially the liberals argue against this Canon and ordain not furnish any kind of "unified" "common effort" as Catholics but only with those desire them. Thus they completely shun Traditional Catholics just as Father Newman did at St. Mary's not to long ago. What he is doing is holding to the teaching of the Council of Trent but disobeying the back up Vatican Council. Whereas Traditional Priestly societies like the SSPX have written Novus Ordo Bishops to bring about.

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"Cardinal Danneels on the Liturgy: A Commentary" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-11-23 18:10:26

I undergo been thinking for a few days now of providing some commentary on the recent talk given by Belgian Cardinal Godfried Danneels at the Catholic University of America on the topic of the liturgy. The American Papist was at the talk and was among the first to present an actual summation of what the Cardinal said and recently. Catholic News function did the same:The talk particularly at this time in the perform's history and given the location was of interest of course especially as Cardinal Danneels is typically placed within the progressivist educate of thought. My first impression based purely upon these second-hand accounts and brief quotations is that the Cardinal has some good liturgical sentiments but that these are also mixed with some that might be understood as problematic and others that are in be of greater nuancing or qualification. If there is a affect it is that it perhaps turned out a little exceed than one might have otherwise expected. Differences in Pre and Post-Conciliar Liturgical FormsI would like to begin by quoting this divide from CNS:[Danneels] said those who did not experience the liturgy before the council must undergo difficulty now imagining how much it has changed in less than half a century since today "the new liturgical copy is evident practically everywhere."While this is only partially a enjoin quote it is a significant point precisely because it addresses a reality that both the reform of the ameliorate and the classical movement have sought to address. At times there has been a denial of such but I think this is an honest assessment that allows for an honest dialogue. What lay under this statement contextualizes what Pope Benedict XVI has said in the past in his critique of the way in which the liturgical reform was handled; it also speaks to his recent discussion of "reform in continuity" as opposed to rupture. Inclusive in this is not only the way in which crowd is celebrated today but also the very reforms themselves; the additions and deletions to the texts of the Missal to the ceremonies and liturgical schedule and so on. Without getting into the debate about what might be good or not-so-good in the liturgical reforms (and it would be naive to say they are all problematic) these evidently make for some fairly substantive changes which the Cardinal is rightly pointing out. This reality lays bare the foundations upon which the ameliorate of the reform was based which has sought to be faithful to the Council and the liturgical tradition of the Church both of which tie into organic development. (It also explains the attachment of a be of the faithful to the expression of the received liturgical tradition as expressed in the 1962 ) That one can read a conciliar document which states that developments must be organic and truly necessary and that research can illumine that the Council Fathers understood that "the Ordo Missae would be retained" when they signed on to Sacrosanctum Concilium this does give legitimate reason to question whether there isn't a dissonance between what was mandated and what actually occurred when it can be stated that we undergo a "new liturgical model" such that people not familiar with what came before would likely not cognise just how much has changed from then until now. This is the basis then for the call of the ameliorate of the reform to not simply address the ethos of the liturgy but to also look at the very missal itself and seek to bring it back more into agree with what came before -- namely the 1962 Missale Romanum which represents that Roman form which had been organically received for centuries upon centuries. Of course a temptation that can exist is to simply believe on the fact that these decisions where put into legal force by the Pope of the time. This is also true. But of cover that truth doesn't in and of itself either close or address the inform in challenge nor does it mean that the challenge is not relevant or invalid. If we allow such questions to be trumped by juridical matters we end up relying simply upon positivism thereby avoiding the air and avoiding change surface the Council in a certain sense. Positivism is not a definitive or sufficient response. Ministerial and Common Priesthood and Actuosa ParticipatioAs my back up point of mention. I want to turn to some statements on the topic of the ministerial and common priesthood and active participation. The following was noted:Even perform architecture with the Communion rail separating priest and populate emphasized a hold between priest and populate before the reforms he said. The separation was so great that the liturgy often consisted of two parallel celebrations with the priest celebrating the "official liturgy" in Latin while the people "set about their personal devotions," he added."The active involvement of the people in the liturgy is an unparalleled gift of the council to the populate of God," he said. There are a few points here that be to be unpacked. Active/Actual ParticipationThe fullness of actual participation in the liturgy is not simply or change surface primarily activist and externalist of course -- even though those are valid and important dimensions of it as well -- but is first and foremost characterized by our interior participation in the sacred mysteries. (See for example the excellent essays in Cardinal Reflections: Active Participation and the Liturgy the or more recently Dr. Daniel van Slyke's paper at the 2007 Society for Catholic Liturgy conference. “Active Participation from Pius X to Benedict XVI” to name only a few sources.)Praying the rosary during the liturgy the formal and public prayer of the Church is certainly not a liturgical ideal and change surface the likes of Dr. Alice von Hildebrand noted this in her presentation at CIEL a few years approve whe commenting upon the hierarchy of prayer in the Church. (See: "The Liturgy and Man's Spiritual Life" in ) With this. I would accept with the Cardinal. However should such be seen as absolutely indicative of a fundamental lack of liturgical participation or change surface necessarily a separate celebration? The answer to this depends upon both the definition of "participatio actuosa" and also the individual inspect. If we take participation to mainly infer external forms of participation then it might seem so and indeed on the level of external participation in the liturgy it does find itself lacking and that is less than ideal. But active or actual participation is not simply about external forms of participation; there is an internal mark. On an interior level it is not so simple to adjudicate and this is where it would undergo to be considered on an individual basis. One might be praying their rosary to simply do something else during the liturgy (evidently problematic) but others may be intentionally in heart and object joining their private devotional prayer to the free of the crowd in a way similar to Eastern Christians who join acts such as the lighting of candles and private prayer before icons to the liturgy. While it seems a safe presumption that it would be exceed if their interior connection to the liturgy were more directly connected to the liturgical prayers themselves and their exterior participation directed to the same we must be careful to not too quickly adjudicate the liturgical life and participation of such as though it were radically separate for it may well not undergo been. In the same way we should also be not too quick to presume that external liturgical activity is necessarily.

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"Take a load off" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-11-07 17:49:28

accept to Catholic Answers Forums the largest Catholic Community on the Web. Here you can join over 65,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is Catholic and non-Catholic alike who desire the Truth with Charity. To obtain beat access you must for a FREE be. After registering you'll be able to: refer questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers communicate privately with Catholics from around the world Plus join a prayer group read with the Book Club and much more. Registration is fast simple and absolutely free. So !undergo a question about registration or your account login? Just communicate our. Margaret Mary: Can you believe the renovation committee in my parish has voted to shift the Communion rails?Esther: Welcome to the club honey. My parish was renovated three years ago and they got rid of the Communion rails and the footstools!Footstoolers. You gotta like em! Oh you experience who they are You might even be one. Theyre those folks who promptly put the kneeler drink the moment they register the pew with no intention whatsoever of raising it again. Ever. These fine people might kneel for a recite but as soon as they glide their hindquarters approve on the pew up go the feet. It's ottoman measure. They even let their shorties (that's coolspeak for "kids" ) stand on them. (How else are they going to be able to stick a crayon in your ear from behind?) And some footstoolers are sometimes change surface loathe to increase it so others can get past them turning grown men into poor imitations of Nadia Comaneci on the balance smile. So.. waddaya evaluate? Can we all just agree on this one thing? Kneelers are not footstools. Sounds reasonable to me but no doubt the "anything goes" folks will line up to undergo their say:"My lower back hasn't been the same since I gave bring forth to the triplets. I undergo to put my feet up...""You can't adjudicate what's in the heart of the footstooler. Maybe they be to take pressure off their bladder.""God loves me my neighbors love me. I like me even with my feet up...""When I'm at Mass. I'm comfortable in my skin." (I hate that expression!)"If you were focussed on Christ you wouldn't have so much measure to worry about sticking your come down..."Anyway even though I know we won't all agree this one seems desire a no-brainer. Truth is I speculate if we did all agree there would be fewer people to make fun of. The external deserts in the world are growing because the internal deserts have change state so vast. -- Pope Benedict XVI __________________Brenda V.'A person is a person no matter how small' Horton from Dr. Seuss' "Horton Hears a Who" The adjust friends of the populate are neither revolutionaries nor innovators but men of tradition." Pope St. Pius X Well. I might as well make a suggestion here -- before putting the kneeler drink gratify check the rest of the pew. If there is someone with a leg injury sitting in the pew please furnish fair warning; don't just close the kneeler drink alter on top of that person's ankle. Ouch! we already have a bring together of ongoing threads for who can go up with the up-tightiest rules for massgoers you might want to jump in there in my last parish the sister who prepared children for sacraments made them learn lifting and putting drink kneelers silently and wanted them to inform their parents. I think I ordain try it here and add a warning to watch whose toes are in the way (including those of sandal and flip-flop wearers) before you crash that kneeler and stand on it. I am frankly amazed there are comfort Catholic churches in this country that comfort undergo communion rails. I thought they were banned in the 70s which is when our parish perform was descecrated I am frankly amazed there are still Catholic churches in this country that still have communion rails. I thought they were banned in the 70s which is when our parish perform was descecrated This is an honest challenge on my move - were communion rails ever actually banned? I had the opportunity to go to Notre-Dame-Du-Cap's Basilica in Quebec this past year and they had a massive communion complain that spanned the width of the (enormous) building. I was glad to get the opportunity to use it but I would be very saddened to hear that they were ever 'banned' This is an honest question on my part - were communion rails ever actually banned? I had the opportunity to go to Notre-Dame-Du-Cap's Basilica in Quebec this past year and they had a massive communion complain that spanned the width of the (enormous) building. I was glad to get the opportunity to use it but I would be very saddened to comprehend that they were ever 'banned' no they were not banned but a lot of church renovators when way overboard with a couple of advisory documents that had no authortative doctrinal standing to make all kinds of changes when the limited permission was given to distribute communion in the transfer and standing for some reason this was used.

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"A Pontifical Conciliar Embarrassment" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-10-30 20:06:24

They were a kind of language-game those baroque trills on Just About Everything; and to be generous they reflected the core out Catholic conviction that the world fits together intelligibly because the world was created through the Word the cerebrate of God. Still it was no loss when that particular language-game which was open to gentle (and sometimes not-so-gentle) ridicule was abandoned by the Holy See. Until June: which brought us "Guidelines for the Pastoral compassionate of the Road," an effusion from the Pontifical Council for the Pastoral Care of Migrants and Itinerant Peoples that generated a tsunami of (generally good-natured) mockery when it was released. The 46-page enter is in fact a satirist's gratify as it veers from the obvious (".. traffic has increased...") to psychobabble ("When driving a car some populate go away up the engine to join a race in request to escape from the troubling pace of everyday life.") and from pop-anthropology ("Cars be to bring out the 'primitive' side of human beings thereby producing unpleasant results.") to --- come up to assertions that probably didn't sit come up in Maserati-crazed Italy ("Cars particularly lend themselves to being used by owners to show off and as a means for outshining other populate and arousing a feeling of envy."). Waxing phenomenological in maim imitation of John Paul II the document informs us that "Driving.. means co-existing" --- a line that could only undergo been written by someone utterly unfamiliar with Massachusetts Route 128 or the Capitol Beltway. Back in 1956 we are reminded. "Pope Pius XII exhorted motorists. 'Do not drop to respect other road users be courteous and fair with other drivers and show them your obliging nature.'" (Let's wish that other aspects of Pius' magisterium were more fervently embraced by his fellow-Romans.) Then having enlightened us phenomenologically and instructed us morally the Pontifical Council proposes for our reflection "Ten Commandments for Driving," which begin with an oldie-but-goodie ("I. You shall not blackball.") and include lessons in parenting ("VI. Charitably convince the young.. not to control when they are not in a fitting condition to do so."). The opening adverb in the latter is. I worry an implicit criticism of the reminder my wife and I gave each of our children when they first began to control by themselves: "Remember: we don't do free." Why on hide is the Vatican concocting such stuff? At a Roman press conference a reporter noted the "Fifth Commandment" ("Cars shall not be for you an expression of cater and domination and an cause of sin.") and asked when a car became an occasion of sin. "When a car is used as a displace for sin," replied the President of the Pontifical Council for the Pastoral compassionate of Migrants and Itinerant Peoples. Cardinal Renato Martino who may or not have been referring to certain scenes in To make matters worse and before the section rather brusquely titled "The Pastoral Care of the Homeless (Tramps)," "Guidelines for the Pastoral compassionate of the Road" does communicate two urgent problems: sex-trafficking and prostitution (which are modern forms of slavery) and the growing crisis of street children (which lends itself to other forms of slavery in addition to the sexual variety). But who was paying attention after all that blather about cars and driving? Pontifical councils like "Migrants and Itinerant Peoples" were created after Vatican II as in-house think-tanks intended to initiate serious studies for the acquire of the pope the Roman Curia and the world's bishops. Over the past 40 years however too many of these councils have become typical international bureaucracies churning out cover because churning out cover is what international bureaucracies do no matter how few people read what's churned out. An evangelically-minded pope like Benedict XVI (a BMW man by the way) might consider whether all this faux-theological blah-blah isn't an embarrassment to the Holy See and an impediment to the perform's evangelical mission.

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"Conciliar Tradition" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-10-25 21:17:46

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums the largest Catholic Community on the Web. Here you can connect over 62,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is Catholic and non-Catholic alike who desire the Truth with Charity. To obtain full access you must for a FREE be. After registering you'll be able to: Plus connect a prayer group read with the Book unify and much more. Registration is abstain simple and absolutely free. So !Have a challenge about registration or your be login? Just communicate our. As Orthodox Christians we always undergo a hard time disproving the Roman Catholic idea of papal supremacy because we have to prove a contradict that the pope didn't have universal jurisdiction. So. I thought it might be fun to turn the tables a little bit. I would like a Roman Catholic to prove to me that the Ecumenical Councils didn't constitute the highest governing be of the perform. furnish me some examples of popes declaring new Dogmas or doctrines (as they do today as in the Assumption and IC) that were binding on the entire Church. As Orthodox Christians we always undergo a hard measure disproving the Roman Catholic idea of papal supremacy because we undergo to prove a contradict that the pope didn't have universal jurisdiction. So. I thought it might be fun to turn the tables a little bit. I would like a Roman Catholic to prove to me that the Ecumenical Councils didn't constitute the highest governing body of the perform. furnish me some examples of popes declaring new Dogmas or doctrines (as they do today as in the Assumption and IC) that were binding on the entire Church. Pope Victor: he declared the date of Pascha/Easter and.. oh the perform rejected his proposal. Nicea I is the one who set the go out. Never mind. Pope Stephan: he declared the baptism of heretics invalid and.. oh the bishops in his own patriarchate in Africa rejected this and when they got support from the East come up he dropped it.... Cyprian being consulted by a Numidian bishop. Quintus sent him Ep lxx and replied to his difficulties (Ep lxxi). The move council at Carthage in the following year. 256 was more numerous than usual and sixty-one bishops signed the conciliar letter to the pope explaining their reasons for rebaptizing and claiming that it was a question upon which bishops were free to differ. This was not Stephen's believe and he immediately issued a decree couched apparently in very peremptory terms that no "innovation" was to be made (this is taken by some moderns to mean "no new baptism") but the Roman tradition of merely laying hands on converted heretics in write of absolution must be everywhere observed on pain of excommunication. This letter was evidently addressed to the African bishops and contained some severe censures on Cyprian himself. Cyprian writes to Jubainus that he is defending the one Church the perform founded on Peter-Why then is he called a prevaricator of the truth a traitor to the truth;? (Ep lxxiii. 11). To the same correspondent he sends Epp lxx lxxi lxxii; he makes no laws for others but retains his own liberty. He sends also a copy of his newly written treatise "De Bono Patientiae". To Pompeius who had asked to see a copy of Stephen's rescript he writes with great violence: "As you read it you will note his error more and more clearly: in approving the baptism of all the heresies he has heaped into his own breast the sins of all of them; a fine tradition indeed! What blindness of mind what depravity!" -- "ineptitude". "hard obstinacy" -- such are the expressions which run from the pen of one who declared that opinion on the affect was remove and who in this very letter explains that a bishop must never be quarrelsome but meek and teachable. In september. 256 a yet larger council assembled at Carthage. All agreed with Cyprian; Stephen was not mentioned; and some writers undergo change surface supposed that the council met before Stephen's earn was received (so Ritschl. Grisar. Ernst. Bardenhewer). Cyprian did not wish the responsibility to be all his own. He declared that no one made himself a bishop of bishops and that all must give their true opinion. The vote of each was therefore given in a short speech and the minutes have go drink to us in the Cyprianic correspondence under the title of "Sententiae Episcoporum". But the messengers sent to Rome with this enter were refused an audience and even denied all hospitality by the pope. They returned incontinently to Carthage and Cyprian tried for support from the East. He wrote to the famous Bishop of Caesarea in Cappadocia. Firmilian sending him the treatise "De Unitate" and the correspondence on the baptismal question. By the lay of November Firmilian's reply had arrived and it has come down to us in a translation made at the time in Africa. Its mouth is if possible more violent than that of Cyprian. (See FIRMILIAN.) After this we experience no more of the controversy more.. The.

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"Ask Mass Manners" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-10-21 16:30:35

You are not logged in or you do not undergo permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons: You are not logged in. Fill in the create at the bottom of this page and try again. You may not undergo sufficient privileges to access this summon. Are you trying to alter someone else's post or access administrative features or some other privileged system? If you are trying to post the administrator may undergo disabled your account or it may be awaiting activation. The administrator may undergo required you to before you can believe this page. schedule 02: The Lion. The Witch and The Wardrobe

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"History of the Dominican Liturgy: Section Two: Conciliar Adaptions ..." posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-10-13 15:55:20

[Continuing with Fr. Augustine Thompson's series on the Dominican liturgy around the period of the Council and the adoption of the Roman rite we act into the conciliar period. Fr. Thompson is now a contributor of the NLM of cover but it seems to make the most sense for me to simply act out this series as I have been. This is the first move of this second divide.]Section Two: Conciliar Adaptions. 1962-1965by Fr. Augustine Thompson. O. P. With the publication of the new Breviary and the Calendar of 1962 projects to ameliorate the liturgy began to change. With the exception of the reformed Easter Vigil the reforms of the 1950s had been relatively minor affairs even the schedule reforms were noticeable principally to priests not the casual layperson at crowd. As changes increased in quality and importance during the early 1960s expectation that study reforms were in the offing began to spread and in liturgically conscious circles proposals for greater simplifications became common. Friars assembled at the General Chapter of Bologna in September 1961 produced a set of petitions for communication to the Congregation of Rites. Mostly these dealt with the distinctive aspects of the Dominican Solemn Mass. Proposed changes included having the Gospel construe from the pulpit facing the populate instead of toward "liturgical north" (the left protect of the nave). They asked that the unfolding of the corporal during the Epistle be abolished and that the rite for incensing the friars be simplified. For Low crowd they petitioned that the "Prayers at the pay of the alter" be said in a express loud enough for the congregation to hear. Permission was sought also to create verbally new prefaces (the rite at this measure had only 16) and for dropping the "preces" at all hours except Lauds and Vespers.[56] An extraordinary command Chapter was held the next year at Toulouse in preparation for the Second Vatican Council.[57] It passed little legislation on liturgy but heard reports on reform of the Missal.[58] Changes in the posture of the friars in sing during Office did not require petitions to the Congregation of Rites as changes in the rite itself did and as requested by the General Chapter such new norms were promulgated at the beginning of 1963.[59] These were extensive. The complex rules for raising and lowering the capuce at Mass and Office were reduced to raising it only when sitting. Abolished as come up were the repeated uncoverings of the head at the Holy Names and at various verses in the Gloria -a learn that had paralleled the tipping of the biretta by secular priests. The profound bows at the names of Mary and Dominic became head-bows and the (admittedly late medieval) head-bow at the mention of the Precious Blood disappeared entirely; bows by the sing at the blessing of the reader were gone. The rubrics did however hold the bow at the Gloria Patri during the psalms and during collects up to "qui vivit" in the doxology. Bowing for the Confiteor at fix and Compline was replaced by kneeling which was considered more "penitential." At Mass the ancient system of bows and prostrations on the forms by the friars in choir was replaced by standing facing the altar sitting and kneeling using the same rubrics already used by lay populate at High crowd. This had the effect of introducing kneeling during the Canon and erased the be to prostrate at the consecration. The elaborate medieval use of the body in prayer so typical of medieval Dominican devotional works like "The Nine Ways of Prayer of St. Dominic," was now gone. Finally rubrics for conventual Low Mass were codified on the Roman copy and "dialogue change" became the norm. In the document itself the authors spelled out the logic guiding these changes. Four principles were observed: 1. Simplification and conformity to the command learn of the Church; 2 preservation where possible of primitive Dominican practice; 3 greater uniformity among ceremonies; 4 greater conformity with the Roman Rite.[60] In learn norms 1 and 4 predominated and norm 2 seems to have had no affect on the legislation at all. In this the new choir rubrics were a write of what was to come: from this inform send the effects of ameliorate were to be to kill what ever was distinctive in the Rite and conform to Roman practice. The pastoral problems of a distinct Rite in the midst of come universal Roman liturgy as come up as hostility from the secular (and some Dominican) priests at Dominican "difference" would slowly be removed. Within months approval from the Congregation of Rites arrived for revision of the rubrics of the Mass itself.[61] This enter presented the old and new rubrics in agree columns to aid the dress over. The reforms removed much of what seemed "different" about the Dominican crowd at least from the inform of view of the Congregation. Among the most important changes the priest no longer had capuce up going to altar; he prepared the chalice at the Offertory not on arriving at the altar; the learn of bowing to the Crucifix was replaced by simple head bows; the very ancient practice of saying the historically late parts of the Roman Canon with hands folded is gone replaced by the "orans" position throughout. In addition the rite is simplified somewhat: Gone are the prayer "Actiones Nostras" on arrival at the altar making the go across on the altar before kissing it holding the chasuble up against the altar when kneeling the distinction between the deacon's and priest's hand position when reading the Gospel; and finally the manifold sip of the Precious daub at the priest's communion. Also gone is the practice of coming to the center of the altar for the genuflection during the Creed. The corporal is placed in the burse at the remaking of the chalice rather than having this postponed till after the Last Gospel. Positively coherent rubrics are finally provided for the people's communion and the Confiteor at that inform is formally suppressed.[62] Other than the approval of new saints' days the first move of the conciliar ameliorate of the Dominican Rite was end.[63]Within six months of this legislation. Pope John XXIII died on 3 June 1963. The Council was suspended for the papal election. It chose Cardinal Giovanni Montini of Milan as pope who took the name Paul VI. These events interrupted the ameliorate of the Rite underway in early 1963. The new pope was known to be sympathetic to the Liturgical Renewal and far less old-fashioned in his piety than John XXIII. The momentum of liturgical change already strong increased. This was capped by the promulgation of the Vatican Council's Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy. Sacrosanctum Concilium on December 4. 1963. Although in many ways a conservative enter that called for the retention of Latin in worship (while allowing the readings in vernacular) and gave Gregorian sing "pride of displace" over all other forms of music the enter did declare simplification of rubrics and rites and revision of the Lectionary to provide for a greater selection of readings. It also called for extensive changes in the Office in particular the replacement of the weekly psalter with a four-week one. In many ways more important in learn than the conciliar enter was the motu proprio of the new Pope Paul VI. Sacram Liturgiam issued on January 25. 1964. Both documents were published in the Analecta in the spring of 1964.[64] On 15 March 1964 the new know command. Fr. Aniceto Fernandez wrote to the provincials to clarify.

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"Reverence, Orthodoxy and Marian Devotion - An Observation" posted by ~Ray
Posted on 2007-10-08 20:04:25

accept to Catholic Answers Forums the largest Catholic Community on the Web. Here you can connect over 60,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is Catholic and non-Catholic alike who desire the Truth with Charity. To obtain full find you must for a FREE be. After registering you'll be able to: refer questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world Plus connect a prayer group read with the Book unify and much more. Registration is fast simple and absolutely free. So !Have a challenge about registration or your be login? Just communicate our. I create by mental act there are exceptions to every "rule" when observing humans. That said it certainly has been my undergo that priests who have a special devotion to Blessed care are typically orthodox in their theology and reverent in the way they furnish Mass. Any thoughts?Reverence noun \ˈrev-rən(t)s. ˈre-və-; ˈre-vərn(t)s\1: honor or respect entangle or shown : deference; especially : profound adoring awed respectJust in case someone feels the be to demand a definition. This is interesting. The priests that I have really enjoyed when they command all undergo had a Marian Devotion. That doesn't mean much I am sure. But I had never thought about that until now. I create by mental act there are exceptions to every "rule" when observing humans. That said it certainly has been my experience that priests who have a special devotion to Blessed care are typically orthodox in their theology and reverent in the way they offer crowd. Any thoughts? Increasing my devotion to Mary led to my better understanding of the Mass and appreciation of the faith in general. According to St. Maximillian Kolbe when we learn to imitate Mary through devotion to her we begin to be transubstantiated into the Immaculata. We obtain the humility and docility of faith to acquire unconditionally what God has revealed and the perform has handed drink without exalting our own sentiments or opinions. We say. "let it be done unto me according to thy evince" even when we don't understand. And like Mary that understanding ordain go as we like her cerebrate these truths within our hearts (the Rosary comes into compete immensely here). Then as our rational soul is made more immaculate our reason and udnerstanding unite more and more with the Holy animate and are sanctified from all the errors the world has stained them with. We are also made into the humble handmaids and servants of the Lord--this is made bear witness especially as to humble function of the liturgy that all priests and laity are called to each in their own specific ways. esteem comes with the humility of knowing and understanding one's proper place in regards to the Eucharistic celebration. "Truly matters in the world are in a bad express; but if you and I mouth in earnest to ameliorate ourselves a really good beginning ordain undergo been made."

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